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Selenial
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PostSubject: Re: Challenge Thread   Fri Apr 24, 2015 11:40 am

Aurbere wrote:
Selenial wrote:
I guess we'll stick with our 2v2 then :p

@ILS+Bart+Aurbere Any favorite brawls ladies?

I think we should avoid Talzin for now until that canon/legends thing gets agreed on. So, whatever else there is would be fine with me.

BTW, Sel, I don't recall you saying, but do you think Dooku vs Surik is a good fight?

No, I don't.
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Aurbere
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PostSubject: Re: Challenge Thread   Fri Apr 24, 2015 11:42 am

Selenial wrote:
Aurbere wrote:
Selenial wrote:
I guess we'll stick with our 2v2 then :p

@ILS+Bart+Aurbere Any favorite brawls ladies?

I think we should avoid Talzin for now until that canon/legends thing gets agreed on. So, whatever else there is would be fine with me.

BTW, Sel, I don't recall you saying, but do you think Dooku vs Surik is a good fight?

No, I don't.

Good, 'cause Dooku wins.

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Beniboybling
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PostSubject: Re: Challenge Thread   Fri Apr 24, 2015 12:13 pm

Aurbere wrote:
Selenial wrote:
I guess we'll stick with our 2v2 then :p

@ILS+Bart+Aurbere Any favorite brawls ladies?

I think we should avoid Talzin for now until that canon/legends thing gets agreed on. So, whatever else there is would be fine with me.

BTW, Sel, I don't recall you saying, but do you think Dooku vs Surik is a good fight?
Well let me make my perspective nice and simple.

If your debating/discussing a character in any medium, anything that character has done in terms of Legends should be treated as something they are capable of, unless Canon demonstrates otherwise. If it doesn't, they can do it.
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PostSubject: Re: Challenge Thread   Fri Apr 24, 2015 12:16 pm

I never disagreed that if someone does something in Legends, they can, well, do that. Whether or not Canon invalidates a Legends event depends on what we're talking about.

I thought the main issue was that people are going by the logic that Talzin fought the equivalent of Legends Sidious?

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Beniboybling
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PostSubject: Re: Challenge Thread   Fri Apr 24, 2015 12:23 pm

Well it means that Sidious, in any medium, can do anything that he has done in Legends and Canon. So Talzin challenged a being who can overwhelm Starkiller, erase the minds of millions, torment Vader from light years away etc. etc.

Which in turn affords her a level of respect.
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PostSubject: Re: Challenge Thread   Fri Apr 24, 2015 12:45 pm

I addressed that argument in my blog.

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Selenial
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PostSubject: Re: Challenge Thread   Fri Apr 24, 2015 12:53 pm

You didn't address it well enough tbh.

There may very well be a reason that literally no one here agrees with you, tbh Up
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PostSubject: Re: Challenge Thread   Fri Apr 24, 2015 12:54 pm

Mr. Bossk wrote:
I addressed that argument in my blog.
Yeah, I'm just making my perspective clear.
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PostSubject: Re: Challenge Thread   Fri Apr 24, 2015 1:21 pm

Selenial wrote:
You didn't address it well enough tbh.

Unfortunately, this isn't an argument. Maybe

Selenial wrote:
There may very well be a reason that literally no one here agrees with you, tbh Up

As it turns out, the bandwagon fallacy isn't an argument either. Maybe

Beni wrote:
Yeah, I'm just making my perspective clear.

And you're free to have that perspective. It's just, well, your perspective is wrong. Maybe
Asserting that Talzin is a genuine rival for Legends Sidious, is nothing other than pretence. Up

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PostSubject: Re: Challenge Thread   Fri Apr 24, 2015 1:39 pm

So basically Swords your saying that we should start separating threads into Legends and Canon. Be it Legends vs debates and Canon power rankings were only Canon or Legends material should be considered valid?
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PostSubject: Re: Challenge Thread   Fri Apr 24, 2015 1:40 pm

The moment ILS stops using TCW or the movie novels as a source for Legends arguments is the moment his argument becomes valid, tbh.

So let's stop arguing all go back to Sidious blitzing Maul, shall wez?

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PostSubject: Re: Challenge Thread   Fri Apr 24, 2015 1:47 pm

I did an entire section in the blog dedicated to explaining how you can use both sources without intermingling them incorrectly.

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PostSubject: Re: Challenge Thread   Fri Apr 24, 2015 1:48 pm

That must have been the section that made no sense, and contradicted itself.
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PostSubject: Re: Challenge Thread   Fri Apr 24, 2015 1:52 pm

If it's written so poorly, you'd do well to actually counter it opposed to circle jerking with people who happen to share your view. Maybe

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PostSubject: Re: Challenge Thread   Fri Apr 24, 2015 1:56 pm

How can I counter something that doesn't make sense? You could start explaining by answering my question above.
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PostSubject: Re: Challenge Thread   Fri Apr 24, 2015 2:04 pm

Beni wrote:
How can I counter something that doesn't make sense?

By quoting the relevant text and explaining why it doesn't make sense?

Beniboybling wrote:
So basically Swords your saying that we should start separating  threads into Legends  and Canon. Be it Legends vs debates and Canon power rankings were only Canon or Legends material should be considered valid?

No, I don't think we need to separate threads into Legends and Canon.

My viewpoint is this; if we're discussing Mother Talzin, and you want to bring up her fight with Sidious in Son of Dathomir, you can. You can say that Mother Talzin was a hard match for Canon-universe Sidious. Regardless of whether or not this is a Legends debate, you can use that feat.

All I am saying that you can't do is, is take Mother Talzin fighting Canon Sidious, and assert that she could replicate that showing against Legends Sidious - Legends Sidious is demonstrably better than his Canon self, and his showings do not translate over to his Canon self.

I mean, you could use the contest to say she's more powerful than a powerful Legends Sith Lord, because regardless of the canonical medium we're discussing, giving Canon Sidious a fight is a good feat. It's not like we need to separate Canon and Legends when building up a portfolio of feats for a character. We just need to acknowledge that content from Legends does not apply to Canon.

With your question answered, I suggest we either make a thread on this board, or you make an account on Comic Vine, and you can get to rebutting the points made in my blog. I'm not letting you turn this discussion into a gateway to ignore my blog and attempt to "win" this thread. The points I made in that blog aren't going away anytime soon.

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PostSubject: Re: Challenge Thread   Fri Apr 24, 2015 2:17 pm

If your not arguing we should divide Legends and Canon, despite making a distinction between Legends Sidious and Canon Sidious, and the crazy super powered world of Legends and the underpowered world of Canon as if the difference where akin to the Marvel movies and the comics. Why can't we just adopt a Legendsverse where by your own ommission, Canon applies to Legends?

Fact is, Legends Sidious contended with and defeated Talzin in a battle. Therefore Talzin contended with Legends Sidious.

Indeed, let us not forget why Legends also encompasses Canon. Because Legends looks to canon for source material. When pitting Starkiller against Sidious they looked to the movies to see how he'd fare, and when they decided Sidious would erase the minds of millions, they looked to the movies to see if he was capable.

Just in the same way that Dave & co. looked to the movies to see how Talzin would fare against Sidious. Who really cares if they didn't take into account Legends, really?

And yeah, your not the first guy who's tried to treat Star Wars like two alternate universes, and you won't be the last, but at least those guys are committed and make sense lol.
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PostSubject: Re: Challenge Thread   Fri Apr 24, 2015 2:34 pm

Beniboybling wrote:
If your not arguing we should divide Legends and Canon, despite making a distinction between Legends Sidious and Canon Sidious, and the crazy super powered world of Legends and the underpowered world of Canon as if the difference where akin to the Marvel movies and the comics. Why can't we just adopt a Legendsverse where my your own ommission, Canon applies to Legends?

Well, there is a "Legendsverse" - what I am proposing is that we combine the feats of a character that features in both Legends and Canon. But I am also saying we cannot mix them, and apply material to each other that aren't canonical with each other.

It's pretty simple, really. You can use Talzin fighting Sidious in any debate you want for the character - just don't pretend she fought Legends Sidious.

And yes, the Legends universe also includes the primary Canon material. However, the primary Canon material doesn't include Legends. I also discussed this in my blog, with my cake analogy.

Beni wrote:
Fact is, Legends Sidious contended with and defeated Talzin in a battle. Therefore Talzin contended with Legends Sidious.

Last I checked, Son of Dathomir is Canon, not Legends. Sorry. lolwut

Beni wrote:
Indeed, let us not forget why Legends also encompasses Canon. Because Legends looks to canon for source material. When pitting Starkiller against Sidious they looked to the movies to see how he'd fare, and when they decided Sidious would erase the minds of millions, they looked to the movies to see if their capable.

No, when those sources wanted to portray Sidious that way, they came up with it themselves. That's kind of the premise of the "Expanded Universe". And again, as it stands at this moment in time, it was Legends Sidious who accomplished those feats. Canon Sidious is incapable of them Up

Beni wrote:
Just in the same way that Dave & co. looked to the movies to see how Talzin would fare against Sidious. Who really cares if they didn't take into account Legends, really?

So you admit that the writers of the script wherein Mother Talzin fought Darth Sidious, did not take into account any Legends material in writing said script? Essentially conceding to my point that Mother Talzin did not fight Sidious with any of his feats from Legends factoring in?

Thank you kindly Up

Beni wrote:
And yeah, your not the first guy who's tried to treat Star Wars like two alternate universes, and you won't be the last, but at least those guys are committed and make sense lol.

I know - George Lucas was the first. Then Disney. What feeb will do so next, I wonder Maybe

Honestly, this is meant to be a board comprised of the debating elite in the Star Wars community. What place do your frequent usages of logical fallacies, in this case, ad hominem, have in such an environment? It's honestly a pathetic excuse for debating. And you manage to pull it off every single time I talk to you.

I see you haven't heeded my suggestion to not drag this thread off-topic, however. I guess that's because this thread serves as the foundation for your circle jerk. Maybe No matter. I'll make a new thread for it.

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PostSubject: Re: Challenge Thread   Fri Apr 24, 2015 2:39 pm

Carry on here, guys: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Anyway, what kind of 2v2 Kaggath do we want to do? Provided we drop Talzin for now, of course.

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PostSubject: Re: Challenge Thread   Fri Apr 24, 2015 2:51 pm

Well I had a fantastic idea, but I can't remember who it was tbh Maybe

I said it in chat though. Was Ulic and someone vs Surik and Plo or something. Maybe Shaak Ti instead of Surik... Maybe

Can anyone remember? Tehee
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PostSubject: Re: Challenge Thread   Fri Apr 24, 2015 3:04 pm

Apologies, but I do not recall. Fisto, maybe?

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PostSubject: Re: Challenge Thread   Fri Apr 24, 2015 3:04 pm

I had an idea of:

Me (Corran) + ILS (Ulic) vs. Shaak (You) + Plo (Aurbere)
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PostSubject: Re: Challenge Thread   Fri Apr 24, 2015 3:10 pm

Personally, I'm in the mood for a good Dooku debate. So, could we work with that?

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PostSubject: Re: Challenge Thread   Fri Apr 24, 2015 3:24 pm

The best person I could use to match up with Dooku is Malgus, but I'm not sure if I'm in the mood to debate for him Maybe

How about Bart finds a Dooku-tier character, and me and Sel debate for characters a stage or two down? I'm eager to bust out Nihl.

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PostSubject: Re: Challenge Thread   Fri Apr 24, 2015 3:26 pm

I honestly would not be comfortable debating Dooku vs Malgus, but I can agree to the other option.

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